Curse

MithranArkanere · Oct 13, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I can't stand the sole mention of the word 'old school'. Things should go forwards and forwards only. Going back only brings back the mistakes of the past. I have enough of that with some old guys yearning for old dictatorial governents where they felt safer but actually were not in my country.

Good old games are good, yeah, but they are even better when they are remade and improved. Just look at Monkey Island or all those Game Boy Advance remakes.

And if with 'Prophecies original weapons' you mean just 5..10 different skins per weapon, but some being sold for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more that they should be just for having a 15 instead a 14 in their properties...?
I'd rather have many different skins with various rarities and finding one maxed and usable once in a while than the very same skin dropping again and again and only 1 out of a gazillion of them being usable in months or depending in a almost nonexistant in-game trade system or third party systems outside of the game.

Anyone liking the old ways doesn't make them good. There is 'people' that like things like throwing stones to birds or cats, killing spiders or baby seals, exceeding speed limits, eating human flesh or eating at McDonald's.
Yeah, sounds crazy, but there is.

And I absolutely will disagree with any kind of separation in servers.
One character should be able to access everything. Separate servers or private servers are always bad. They only spread the already shrinking playerbase.
Segregation is bad both in real life and games.

Do you know what happens when you look back and yearn for all the bad things of the past that you wrongly consider good?
You are turned into a statue of salt.

Yawgmoth · Oct 14, 2009, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Mith: this mode unsurprisingly wouldn't appeal to you but there are many players out there who would absolutely love it. And I doubt there would be any spreading of playerbase involved - the current GW game would be unaffected, players who would enjoy the Prophecies-only server the most aren't in most cases very active GW players nowadays.

Going forward isn't always going the right way. Many decisions have been made which permanently hurt the game experience for many and tremendous damage was done which is unrecoverable.

GW now is a mere shade of what it was in 2005-2006, huge player masses have quit because they didn't like the changes that happened to the game and the direction it went. Many of them are still regular forum readers and follow the game without actively playing it. I'm absolutely sure that with good enough promotion an official fresh start of an Oldschool GW server would gather thousands of players.

It's obvious this idea won't appeal to everyone, but people who haven't played back in 2005 often have no idea how the game was like then.

It's also obvious it shouldn't be a simple release of GW stuck in time in 06.2005 or 09.2005 or any other time. There were many improvements to the game, it's balance, quality and even entirely new features added to the game much later that would be great additions and that wouldn't necessarily kill the oldschool feel. Practically the Prophecies of today should be the base to build this upon, to keep obvious game improvements and to make the implementation easier. Ofcourse some tweaks would be necessary and some additions could make the experience richer.

If everything was done right, THIS would be my game of choice to play until GW2.

Kaitoa · Oct 14, 2009, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Wow three attacks from Trolls and still kicking, not bad. Also got some backup, nice

Anyway back to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

And if with 'Prophecies original weapons' you mean just 5..10 different skins per weapon, but some being sold for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more that they should be just for having a 15 instead a 14 in their properties...?
I'd rather have many different skins with various rarities and finding one maxed and usable once in a while than the very same skin dropping again and again and only 1 out of a gazillion of them being usable in months or depending in a almost nonexistant in-game trade system or third party systems outside of the game.

The proph only weps was refering to the Greens only. I said non inscribable weapons only, this opens it up for faction skins as well. And the reason why they are sold for more is because they are rare, which is a good thing.
Anet gradually squeezed the life out of this game by making all things easily accessable to everyone. A perfect example of this is the Mursaat hownbow or hammer. Those were so rare that if you saw one it was an amazing thing, now its nothing.
Today people do not farm for skins, they farm for ectos or the largest amounts of kills per minute. If there was a demand for non inscrib. weps than farmers would start farming for those instead. thereby making them more happy, ie providing them with variety and a ready buyer. Ofcourse certain skins would get farmed more regularly than others thereby bringing down that price over time. This I see as re-igniting the market and trading in this game for a while until Gw2 hopefully. Afterall these are rare drops so it cant be over farmed too quickly. You would actually be able to get perfect weps quite easily, places like Witmans folly and Gyala Hatchery are easily run. Those weapons are cheap so there would be a market of skins for varying degrees of wealth and e-peen.
Last point is in order to have super rare NF and gwen drops as non-inscrib weps. The Z-chest and HA chest could start dropping them. Thereby creating an interest in those as well.

Also added the following two other requirements above.
5. No consumables
6. No title bonus eg the one vs char

Hugh Manatee · Oct 14, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

There never should have been "inherent" weapon mods, the inscription system should have been implemented from day 1. When it was implemented, they should have ret-conned all the non insc weapons to have a slot(and fixed those stupid quest reward weapons from prophecies, bows with caster mods encourage stupid players). Before this system, basic weapons and equipment were overinflated(sup vig and sup absorptions were unavailable unless you ettin farmed) and prohibitively expensive to anyone who didn't farm or run. There should have been gold sinks, but not runes or weapons.

Heroes saved the pugs. before them, pugs would wait for a long time in a zone for a human monk with a decent bar(IE ble to remove hexes and conditions, and didn't just spam heal breeze, this was vital in the maguuma jungle VS wind riders). Now if there's a hole in your team, a role that needs to be filled, you don't have to wait or scrap the run. Henchmen should have been customizable from the start, as in I talk to them before zoning in, and for a price I can add skills to their bar or something like that. They also used to be incredibly stupid, only ressing when a party wipe was imminent, and would not follow called targets or defend NPCs. I would not go back.

The pve skills/titles I could take or leave, some do even up the fight VS enemies that are up to 10 levels stronger then you, but many are broken, while others are pathetically useless. I also remember having to horde collectibles for candy canes every wintersday, the pepermint cane, the original conset, people hoarded hundreds in storage and mules, they sold for 1k+ each.

Meh, old proph gets romanticized too much. Maybe they implement some sort of self contained offline mode where you can do this stuff on your own, like when people play final fantasy with starter equipment only, but I doubt i'd play it.

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 14, 2009, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

GW now is a mere shade of what it was in 2005-2006

On the contrary, it has improved much since then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

That's why it should be a SEPARATE SERVER with a FRESH NEW START for everyone who would like that.

MASSIVE WASTE of DEVELOPER TIME just to satisfy people who are nostalgic for a shitty inferior version of Guild Wars, even though they can ALREADY PLAY THAT WAY.

MithranArkanere · Oct 14, 2009, 12:30 PM // 12:30

There is but one GWO.
And there is already one 'fresh start' being prepared.

Want a fresh start with all things that can't be fixed in GWO? Wait for GW2. Only one of four different things may happen then:
* You like both and play both.
* You like GW2 more, and go to GW2.
* You hate GW2 so much that you can cope with all that great new good stuff you hate and make you yearn for 'old school', and you'll rather stay in GWO, considering the alternative of GW2.
* You go bananas, nuts and a couple of fruits more, and jump out of the highest window you can, earning a Darwin Award in the process.

reaper with no name · Oct 14, 2009, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Feature already exists. Just don't use all that new-school stuff. No need to waste so much time and energy implementing something that you can already do on your own.

/notsigned

Yawgmoth · Oct 15, 2009, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

There never should have been "inherent" weapon mods, the inscription system should have been implemented from day 1. When it was implemented, they should have ret-conned all the non insc weapons to have a slot...

Nononono, no. Not only the inscription system was the single worst thing that has happened to GW PvE ever, but it would be even far far worse if they also killed all oldschool stuff and old campagins. If it was in the game from the beginning it wouldn't be any better either, it's just a plain horrible design.

I'm not saying the oldschool system is that great, it's far from that and it could have obviously used many improvements, it's stil infinitely more FUN. And mindless destruction is not an improvement.

The key most important thing in a good random drop system is to have the weapons have different variable inherent properties that can differ them. Variety of mods should exist and the quality should differ. Bad drops have to exist so others can be good.
Being able to find actually great weapons is awesome, as opposed to getting just 'skins' and separate mods, bleh. But when every single gold or purple drop you get is inherently perfect and practically the same it all gets boring in no time. Zero excitement from getting a gold drop when they're all equally perfect and equally worthless. On a Prophecies only server that great feeling would be back again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Heroes saved the pugs. before them, pugs would wait for a long time in a zone for a human monk with a decent bar(IE ble to remove hexes and conditions, and didn't just spam heal breeze, this was vital in the maguuma jungle VS wind riders).

Exactly opposite - heroes KILLED the pugs and pugging. If there was a limit to 1 hero per 1 player it would be a completely different story, but 3 heroes are so strong that they compliment for the weakness of the remaining 4 henchies and effectively turn the game into a Singleplayer Online RPG = FAIL.

@everyone saying we can do it already: NO, LOL, THINK before posting nonsense. We can try to emulate some features but many simply cannot.
*1st and most obvious is the economy of a new server, that would be a truly great experience, one that didn't happen in GW for 4.5 years. Completely different prices of everything and values of nice rare drops wouldn't be completely demolished by the fact it's easy to farm 100s of lame perfect insc versions in no time. I can dream...
*2nd would be pvp, especially gvg, it was great before Factions release.
*3rd, the achievements on that server would have a completely different meaning and greater value among the inside community, it would practically add NEW challenges out of old existing content, and it would be _meaningful_ challenges. I could try making up my own challenges in current world or try doing a Tyrian Guardian or Vanquisher without using heroes, pve skills and consumables on current live servers, but thats pointless - reward is the same title as people using tons of imba get, and not to mention _incredible_ difficulty in finding other people wanting to do the same. It would be completely different on a separate Proph only server.

If can't understand why this would be awesome for many people, look at the Pre Searing community - Pre is fantastic, I would stick to it but it lacks content and multiplayer activities. It's the closest we now have to a Proph only server but it's clearly not enough.

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 15, 2009, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Nononono, no. Not only the inscription system was the single worst thing that has happened to GW PvE ever, but it would be even far far worse if they also killed all oldschool stuff and old campagins. If it was in the game from the beginning it wouldn't be any better either, it's just a plain horrible design.

Explain the problem with being able to fully mod the weapon you want to use?

As I see it, it makes things more convenient, stops people from being able to sell a simple max-stat weapon for high prices, and follows the Guild Wars philosophy that player skill should always be superior, with grind never interfering.

Mr. Undisclosed · Oct 15, 2009, 03:27 AM // 03:27

No lie, this idea is downright stupid.

newbie_of_doom · Oct 15, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27

When I got to this thread I expected it to be about PvP.
But in response to the actual suggestion: Not being able to use heroes or PvE skills, consumables or anything else that wasn't in proph.
For one, I think being unable to use heroes is bad as it forces you to either find nonretarded people who play PvE, which is hard, and I really wouldn't care about or have to play with complete retards. However I do think that without PvE skills you would be able to call HM actually 'Hard', as skills like Save Yourselves are simply retardedly overpowered.
Not allowing charactars to use nonprophecies weapons (like inscribable weapons or green weapons from other campaigns) is simply retarded as I have to put up with enough garbage in my inventory simply to have the right armor and weapons. The amount of space this takes is insane. Besides, all the weaponeffects that can be acquired today, one could acquire before the release of factions.

Eragon Zarroc · Oct 15, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

would be very neat for completing campaigns in only proph mode

does this mean no HM? ;-) old school proph didn't have HM and it would be like crazy difficult with just proph skills, lol

The Drunkard · Oct 15, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Explain the problem with being able to fully mod the weapon you want to use?

As I see it, it makes things more convenient, stops people from being able to sell a simple max-stat weapon for high prices, and follows the Guild Wars philosophy that player skill should always be superior, with grind never interfering.

Before NF there were many Greens that actually sold for decent prices on the market. The price of the greens were dependant on limited customization, since a gold 14^50 wep is inferior to a 15^50 green. Golds were worth more with perfect mods since they were harder to accumulate, and the market was stable with many items over 80k. With NF the worth of those weps decreased greatly, and the market turned from perfect weps-> pretty skins. With EoTN all of the hard-to-get skins from proph and factions became easily available, and you have the trash of a market we have today (where most of the weps that are over 100k are glowy or have some sort of animation).

back OT /notsigned- I'd rather Anet fix the game we have now to hold my interest 'till GW2 rather than trying to bring back the "old school." Although it might be apealling for a while to have a decent skill balance without the powercreep that NF brought, the game would quickly become boring due to the lack of content that the other expansions offered.

MithranArkanere · Oct 15, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

I'll say it again. Inscriptions DON'T make items perfect.
HARD MODE makes rares drop more.
It's not the average player that gets a maxed rare once in a while the one inflating the 'ecomoney' with rares, but the ones farming and making Speed Clears in Hard mode both in inscribed and non inscribed areas.

With the almost non-existant trade system, most players have to get the items they use themselves, since the alternative is spending hours farming to get gold and pay those that get the item, and even more annoying, having to spam hours for the item or what's WAAAY much worse, having to resort to external third party trading and auction sites.
Leaving a game to play that game is not something that should be.
I think that even the Xunlai Tournament House should have a fully ingame interface.

And inscriptions definitely don't make items maxed nor 'perfect'. They just make one variable property moddable. And item won't have full damage/defense/energy, req 9 nor 20% HSR just for dropping in an area where inscribed items can drop. It can even drop without inscription slot at all!
It's just one variable property being moddable, like happened with armors and insignia. All the base properties remain fixed and depend on the drop, like happened with armors and insignia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Explain the problem with being able to fully mod the weapon you want to use?

As I see it, it makes things more convenient, stops people from being able to sell a simple max-stat weapon for high prices, and follows the Guild Wars philosophy that player skill should always be superior, with grind never interfering.

The mechanics of a retrograde mind will make them think that a Ford-Tis way better than a flying Delorean.
It's an strange mix of fear of change, inability to adapt, longing for times that give them usually unjust advantages over others and greed.
You can't really explain it.

As for greens, I see as a bit of a shame the niche they were reduced too. There are some with nice skins, and some with nice properties, but most of them are reduced to weapons for heroes and items you give away to friends or newbies, because you already have a neat gold weapon with the same skin that will accept dyes.

If weapons had a PvE-only property that would be disabled in PvP, each green item could have a real unique property in that slot that could be better than any property you'll find in any rare weapon's PvE slot, and they would gain protagonism again, but I'm afraid that would bit a bit much of a change, although I will still go for it.

Kaitoa · Oct 16, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed

No lie, this idea is downright stupid.

Ala, Jermaine. "Why, why, why, why....be more constructive with your feed back...why?"

Ide just like to point out that I actually am liking the discussion this thread is generating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

would be very neat for completing campaigns in only proph mode

does this mean no HM? ;-) old school proph didn't have HM and it would be like crazy difficult with just proph skills, lol

Exactly which would make the title more prestigious and sort after. But once again i need to point out that I did not say proph only skills, just no pve skills like kurzick/luxon skills. Afterall, we cant leave out the other prof's just because they came after prophecies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie_of_doom

For one, I think being unable to use heroes is bad as it forces you to either find nonretarded people who play PvE, which is hard, and I really wouldn't care about or have to play with complete retards. However I do think that without PvE skills you would be able to call HM actually 'Hard', as skills like Save Yourselves are simply retardedly overpowered.
Not allowing charactars to use nonprophecies weapons (like inscribable weapons or green weapons from other campaigns) is simply retarded as I have to put up with enough garbage in my inventory simply to have the right armor and weapons. The amount of space this takes is insane. Besides, all the weaponeffects that can be acquired today, one could acquire before the release of factions.

First point.Yes it forces you to play with others who know what they are doing. After all this game is called Guild wars right, not Pug wars, or solo wars. The title for this would I think be considered by many to be the true "Guild Wars" Pve title because of this fact and the fact of the difficulty of it.
Second point about non-inscribable weapons, this I think would add to the difficulty of the title. Which is "all good" if you ask me.

Bob Slydell · Oct 16, 2009, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaitoa

I was reading a thread today about what it was like in the pre-faction days. I myself started playing about 6 months before factions. So I was thinking it would be cool to play the game again but with added difficulties like:
1. No pve skills eg faction skills
2. No hero's, only henchies
3. No weapons with inscriptions
4. No green weps, only the original proph ones.
Ofcourse I could just do this individually now but I never would. Thus it would need a title to encourage people to actually go through with it. I think however that such a title would be well sort after and could actually revivie the game alittle before gw2 comes out.
So thats what I was thinking, what does everyone think?

Added req's
5. No consumables
6. No title bonus

If you have a second account with JUST prophecies it would be much easier to stay clean. These days Prophecies run pretty cheap, you can pick up a copy at a random retail store for about as much as a character slot.

Thenameless Wonder · Oct 17, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaitoa

I was reading a thread today about what it was like in the pre-faction days. I myself started playing about 6 months before factions. So I was thinking it would be cool to play the game again but with added difficulties like:
1. No pve skills eg faction skills
2. No hero's, only henchies
3. No weapons with inscriptions
4. No green weps, only the original proph ones.
Ofcourse I could just do this individually now but I never would. Thus it would need a title to encourage people to actually go through with it. I think however that such a title would be well sort after and could actually revivie the game alittle before gw2 comes out.
So thats what I was thinking, what does everyone think?

Added req's
5. No consumables
6. No title bonus

play prophecies. ^^

draxynnic · Oct 17, 2009, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaitoa

Also your point about wasting dev's time, well going by the latest update, they have alot of time on their hands.

They've stated that they've slowed down the balance updates so that they have more time to do all the other things on their plate. Remember that the GW Live team is only a half-dozen people or so including the community reps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Not sure about the weapon part. Maybe if it automatically nulls the inscription part while in that mode.

Ehhh, just nullify the ones that have effects that didn't exist in Prophecies. And, while you're at it, don't forget the suffixes and prefixes as well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

killing spiders

I'm Australian. If I find I'm sharing living space with a redback, it DIES. Better it than me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie of doom

Besides, all the weaponeffects that can be acquired today, one could acquire before the release of factions.

Not quite true. There are some mods that were completely new in EOTN (half cast time mods for weapons come to mind).

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Before NF there were many Greens that actually sold for decent prices on the market. The price of the greens were dependant on limited customization, since a gold 14^50 wep is inferior to a 15^50 green. Golds were worth more with perfect mods since they were harder to accumulate, and the market was stable with many items over 80k. With NF the worth of those weps decreased greatly, and the market turned from perfect weps-> pretty skins.

Ehhh... it was always about the skin. You could get a perfect 15>50 for a wink and a smile from a collector right from the day of release. You had to find your own suffix and prefix to add to it, but that's still true today. Inscriptions just meant you could move that 15^50 from one skin to another.

upier · Oct 17, 2009, 11:22 AM // 11:22

So this would apply to C1 only?
And if not, what happens to paragons?

Premium Unleaded · Oct 17, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

So this would apply to C1 only?
And if not, what happens to paragons?

The Krytan Immigration and Borders Agency revoke their visas and they get deported.